Conversation Compass
Conversation Compass is a step-by-step tool designed to help you build the skills needed to speak in Discovery Mode.
Step 1: Scenario
Step 2: Conversation
Step 3: Outcome
Step 4: Analysis
Step 5: Exercises
Click on the 
blue play/pause button on the interactive transcript below to begin listening to the scenario. The transcript is also clickable, allowing you to study the conversation in greater detail.
Working at my computer one afternoon, the front desk manager put a call through to me saying someone was asking for info regarding my listing on Villa Lane. Actually, having two properties listed on that street, with one being an escrow, I wondered which the person was calling about. The following conversation occurred between us.
A flip call is a phone call you make or receive that doesn't directly have anything to do with the possibility of obtaining a new client or listing a property or putting in an offer. The call could be for any other reason, however, a catch -up call with a friend, an update regarding home repairs, a product solicitation or consumer survey, or quite commonly, a topic that generally pertains to your real estateestate business and escrow officer with a question, a mortgage broker pitching a new loan program, another real estate agent calling about a property. What makes any such phone call a flip call is when you consciously reverse the flow of information within the conversation away from the caller towards you. Said Practice transforms an ordinary call that you simply serve as into a discussion of discovery on your part. Potentially about real estate happening or not happening.
Flip calls are a great way to stay in discovery mode more often throughout your day and potentially pick up an interaction or discussion of discovery that you otherwise would have missed.
While getting ready to close down an open house that I'd been holding one Saturday afternoon, during which no one had even stopped by, a couple drove up in an older model compact car and wearing baggy sweatpants and faded t -shirts walked through the front door. Not letting first impression sway me negatively and reminding myself to stay open to opportunity, the following conversation occurred between us.
Now let’s listen to the full conversation.
This is Fred Wilson. Thanks for calling with whom I speak. Hi Mike. Mike Roberts. Hi Mike.
Hey, this is my landline so I can't see your number on my screen. What's your cell? Oh sure. 744 -277 -4201. Thanks. You called regarding Ville Lane.
Correct. What information would you like? I did, yes. 22534 Va. What's the current price? Well it turns out that lot is an escrow. What's the price range you're looking at? Well actually we're not looking, we're comparing.
I see. What exact are you comparing? Oh you know other building lots in the market in that neighborhood specifically what they're listed for and what they've sold for. Thinking of building? Well whether or not to guess, but can't you just tell me the price? Happy to. The lot you called on is priced at the May in 395 although as I said it's currently an escrow. Well once it closes escrow I can let you know or perhaps the seller won't mind me giving out the contract price to prior to closing.
I'll call him and ask either way I can get back to you. Sound good? So it's selling for less than the asking price. Let me talk with the seller and get back with you with the pertinent information. Earlier though you mentioned other building lots are in the area. Which other lots have you seen? Well, I saw you had another lot listed.
Is it still listed a million 250? Good question because we've just substantially lowered the asking price to 995. What do you think about that number? For that lot, I'd say it's headed in the right direction. I never thought you'd get more of a million for it. You think you're going to feel lower to actually sell it? That's hard to say. There is someone with another agent who's nose around at the moment.
You want to take a run at it before they do? No, no. It's a purchase. That lot just doesn't interest me. I understand. What is it about that particular lot that doesn't work for you? Well, you know, the building envelope is a little too small.
The view is not so great. I don't really like having hugs on the mountains them outside and there's just enough light up there. I can see what you're saying but I'm curious what would you do if you could get the property for less than 900 ,000. That would make a difference to me. So simply not ready to jump in at this time.
Well like I said we're really just comparing you know trying to decide whether to build or not build because in truth, you know, we already have a really nice lot. Wow. Super. In the very same neighborhood? Oh, yeah. Just a few blocks up the street.
Oh, very good. And how does it stack up in comparison to the lots that we've been talking about? Well, I like mine better, which, you know, it's a personal thing. Everybody thinks their property is the best, right? A good point. But tell me about your law. When did you buy it? Four or five years ago, I'd say.
And how about how much did you pay for? We've made a million one, two, five. I think we got a pretty good deal. Any idea what it's worth today. A good age and always walks the ground, so I'd first have to do that and look at a few more recent comparables, then I could tell you what number do you have in mind? Well, I prefer to hear what you have to say. You're the professional.
Thank you, I appreciate it. And which is why I'm first going to pull together a few more relevant facts. You mentioned previously that you're comparing things. So let me ask you this, in what ways have you been following the market since you bought? Well, since I bought, I haven't really. Now that we're thinking of not building, I just want to get a feel for what my options might be.
Got it. So building is now pretty much off the table for you guys? Probably. I mean, there've been some changes in our life direction and we're thinking we don't want to go through the drill of building. Makes sense. Was what you had previously been planning set to become your main residence a getaway home or perhaps a rental property? Maybe sometime down the road or residence but otherwise a weekend or holiday place for it.
Okay, understood. And you've lost the desire for a big construction project. Exactly. Well, to be honest, I don't even know what I was thinking. I bought the lot to build on.
And I'm not sure particularly when we can pick up something that's nice for less than replacement costs and none of that hassle. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. I agree. The high end in that area has never fully recovered from the down market. Right now, if we pay attention, I could get you a great deal on a very nice property.
What would you say to buying for perhaps 70 to 80 % of the cost to build? Right. Yeah. That's just what we've been thinking. So you and your wife are on the same page with this new direction? I'd say so. Yeah.
And what's changed in your lives page with this new direction. I say so, yeah. And what's changed in your lives to cause this new approach away from building? Well, chiefly, I'm now thinking of retiring and frankly, I'm tired. We've done it before and just the thought of building exhausts me and it's from my wife Mary Ann with a slew of grandkids having arrived on the scene. She just wants to put her energy in this other direction, other than building.
I can totally relate. And you want me to sell your lot before you can identify a house. Well potentially, I don't want to go loan on real estate. Smart, what do you want to sell your lot for? Well certainly not less than what I've paid for it, do you think you can get that? Well based on what you've told me perhaps but again I need to walk it. What's the address? I'll check it out before the end of the day.
Oh, darn, I can't recall the actual street address. I just know it's a lot 22 will Elaine, can you find it out with that? Sure, no problem. And which has got me thinking, if I like the lot, but not so much the market, which is fairly flat, what would you do if somebody offered you 950 -all cash in just 15 days to close escrow? "Under no circumstances, let it take less than 1 million. So if you want to hurt a commission, you need to know that going in." And it's good to know. I too would rather go in with my eyes open.
I want to thank you for being up front with me. How about I go walk your lot and get back to you. Would 4 o 'clock or would 6 be better? Okay, but you won't get me later today. So ring me tomorrow morning. No worries.
I can do that. And if the numbers pan out, we'll get it on the market. Sound like a plan? Well, let's see what the number you come back with is and we'll go from there. Great. Thanks, Mike.
Talk to you soon. Now after having met and spoken with Mike on the phone, a bit later that day I went to walk his lot and spend a little time putting together a competitive market analysis to discuss with him, knowing what I did coming out of our initial conversation. I actually listed his lot for May in 150 and then several weeks later sold it to my own buyer who did in fact want to build for May in 150 and then several weeks later sold it to my own buyer who did in fact want to build for May in 25. I then took Mike and Marianne out shopping and they quickly purchased a lovely home in a great, although different neighborhood for 2495. And as is often the case when using the production model, it didn't stop there.
Based on what I learned while shopping with them in the new neighborhood which previously I'd been unfamiliar with, I thereafter went on to experience a major deal chain in that area, and an excellent example of perpetual production, in which I had more than a dozen additional transactions come together totaling approximately 20 million in sales, all starting with the above sign call and doing large part to my effective process of talking with people.
Hello, this is Fred. How may I help you? Fred as in Jack Fredg Wilson? Yes, that's correct. Who's calling? Hi, my name is Julia Herrera, and I'm calling from Real Capital Informatics. How are you? I'm quite good. Thanks, and you, Julia.
Good, thanks. I'm calling you to date a verify specific information relative to certain real estate transactions that you have in Agent were recently involved in. Okay, and why are you doing that? Well, my firm real capital informatics specializes in the verification of data noted in the public record. So by calling people in the real estate industry, particularly active agents, that's yourself, we confirm that the information is accurate and then make it available to companies interested in using it for marketing and statistical purposes. And for that, you charge the companies a fee? Yes, that's correct.
In fact, often they hire us in advance with specific objectives in mind. I see. And is that the case in this instance? Oh, I really couldn't say because I'm just the gal who collect that data requested. Ah, you're out of the loop so to speak. I get it.
What type of companies even request such information? Well, many actually, and all around us specifically, which companies behind this survey request, I do know that oftentimes real estate development companies and banks are sometimes involved. I understood. And tell me, Julia, what made you call me versus someone else? Well today, I'm just calling people in your zip code. Ah -ha. But why did you call me specifically? There are lots and lots of other agents who work in this zip code.
Well, I saw your name noted in the MLS as a listing agent for the properties that are in question. You have access to the MLS? I do. I'm the public side. But you're not a real estate agent yourself. No, no.
Like I said, I work for our CI. That's right, got it. So let me get this straight. You're calling me to verify the details of real estate transactions that I, due to my involvement in them, can provide. And then your company sells that information as verified accurate to other companies such as banks and real estate developers who, through strategic and marketing applications, use it to help them succeed in their business.
Is that right? - Yes, that's about it. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions, related to your recent sales in Rancho Vida? - First, may I ask you something else regarding your survey? - Sure, go ahead. - To be honest, what's in it for me? I mean, you're getting paid by your company, which is good. And your company is getting paid by its clients also good, and then those companies use the information they paid for to make more money. So why would I get involved? Well, your participation is voluntary.
Only participate if you want to, certainly, can decline to respond. I completely understand, and likely I'm in, but before we begin let me ask you this. Other than your profession, Julia, what is it you do to build wealth? How do you mean, how so? Well, is your current job taking you where you want financially? Well, yeah, for the time being, you know, it pays the bills. And that's a very good thing, but you call me because I'm a known professional in the real estate business, right? Yes, you could say that, particularly regarding certain properties in a specific area. That makes sense, and I wouldn't be worth my salt as a professional if I didn't ask you this, Julia.
What would you do if I told you about a property that would pay you to own it? Me? Oh, it wouldn't matter. I don't have any money. I see. At this time, do you rent her own? Well, rent and I can barely afford that. Right? Living expenses are well expensive.
How far away do you live from the property you call me about? Well, gosh, you're in Southern California. I'm in Northern California. So what I'm guessing 500 miles. That distance is no problem. Many of my clients are from out of the area.
Which of your family members might want to help you out? In my family, uh, none. Okay, I perfectly understand. Again, not a problem. And so getting back to why you called me, you could say that I'd be doing you a favor by responding to your survey, yes? Yes, I guess you could say that. And by fully responding, I'd be helping you in a way to earn your living.
Yes, indirectly. All right. And getting to know you, I instinctively want to help you. So I'll take the time and do you a favor and respond to your survey. Afterward, though, I'm hoping you'll do a favor for me.
Deal? Well, what kind of favor? Not much, really. Basically, just answer a few short questions that might help lead me to my next successful real estate transaction. Sound good, Julia? Well, I can't promise you anything, but if I can, I'd be happy to help you. You should go first. You have the stage.
I'm all yours. Thanks Fred. I very much appreciate your time and cooperation. Now what questions do you have for me? - Thank you, Julia. Hope I was of help.
Okay, my first question goes out of the fact that earlier, you said your job is to call real estate agents to verify certain information pertaining to real estate transactions. So my question is, who else do you call other than real estate agents when trying to obtain the information you seek? - Well truth is, we call anyone who potentially could help us. For example, people who have bought or sold a property themselves, you know, who are actually the buyer of the seller? Well, for sure that, uh, although often they can be hard to track down. Boy, don't I know it. When successful in getting them, though, do any of those buyers and sellers ever ask you for the name of a good real estate agent? Well, not typically no.
Um, because the information we seek is after the fact that you never know it could happen. I see what you mean, and you're right, you never know. So here's my last question. And based on everything we've discussed today, and thus in having gotten to know one another better, it's the question I really most want to ask you Julia. Shoot, that's the question.
If any of the people you happen to contact in going forward ask for or you think they might need a good real estate agent, would you give them my name and number? Well, again, I can't make any promises. However, if that situation happens to come up, perhaps I could help you out. Great, Julia. And I can't ask for more than that. Thanks for calling me today.
Is this your number on my screen? 888 -338 -4297. Yes, okay. And please keep my number. I hope our pass across again someday. Thanks to you two Fred and best of luck in your real estate business.
I can tell you'd be good to work with.
"Hi, welcome to my open house. You just made it in under the wire." "Oh, we don't want to bother you. If you're closing up, that's okay." "No bother at all. I'm glad you stopped by. Feel free to look around.
I bet you already know how." "Have you been to any other open house this afternoon?" "A few yes, and saw some yes today as well." "And of the various homes you've seen are any a real candidate for you? No, not really. Everything just seems to need updating. I understand. So you're not looking for a project? No, not so much. Been there, done that.
Ah, got it. Did you remodel or build new? New construction. A nearly three year 10 ,000 square foot project. We never want to see another contractor again. Eh, I can only imagine.
Where did you build? Just outside Minneapolis. I see. Sorry, you just visiting here in Southern California, or are you thinking of making a move? Well, it would be a second home for us, you know, for during the winter months. Minnesota can get pretty cold Buh, I can only imagine. So are you staying here in a hotel at this time or running for a period of time? Well, actually, we already on a place not too far from here.
Ah Very good. How long have you had it? About 15 years. It was an impulse buy during a guy's only golf vacation and probably the reason for my divorce Which is how I ended up with the place Hey, we all know about the twists and turns of life, right? Why might you want to make a change in going forward? Just time for an upgrade something bigger, you know for family and in a different neighborhood and definitely on a golf course Make sense. How big is your current place? Oh family, and in a different neighborhood, and definitely on a golf course. Makes sense.
How big is your current place? Oh, I'd say about 1800 square feet. And the bedroom bathroom count? Three bed, two bath, just a little condo. Sounds good. How much bigger might you want to go? Well, this feels pretty good. What's the square footage of this house? Ah, approximately 4200 square feet.
How many bedrooms might you need? For sure, for, and an office. I get it, and that's certainly doable. In fact, this property pretty much fits that bill. What do you think? Oh, you know, we definitely want more modern, preferably inside now. I understand.
The challenges in this community of full - more modern, preferably inside now. I understand. The challenges in this community of full -on modern exterior isn't allowed, although you can go as contemporary as you want inside. Question. If you saw an interior that you absolutely love in this neighborhood, would a more traditional say Spanish -mission exterior still be acceptable? Well, we do really like this area.
So, I suppose if we love the interior floor plan and finish, and if the particular location is right, yes. And what would make the specific location right for you? Definitely big view of feeling of privacy, a good size yard. And since you're here in a gated golf course community, I assume? size yard. And since you're here in a gated golf course community I assume? Yes, I think so. Okay.
So to accurately state what would work for you, a gated golf course community, great view, good privacy, nice yard, four bedrooms plus an office, not a remodel project, and for sure, modern, especially on the inside. Sound about right? Yep. Does that even exist in this community? Possibly, but I'd like to get a better sense for the kind of interior look and feel you're after. No problem. My phone's loaded with photos of what we did back home, and it's spot on the style we love.
Here, take a peek. Wow. Gorgeous. Really helpful .. I see what you mean.
Let me ask you this. If I knew of a property nearby that seemingly fit the various requirements you just outlined, in particular with an attractive modern interior, would you want me to show it to you?" "Sure, but it being Saturday we're about to go out of town for a few days and we'll be back into Wednesday, so we couldn't see it until Thursday. Makes sense. So you're gone as of tomorrow? Actually, not until Monday, but we already have plans to see several properties next Friday with another agent. Cool.
An agent you've been working with for some time? Not really, just a few days. And how'd you happen to meet that person? Our neighbors suggested him. Ah, right. As an agent, I always love it when that happens. But now I'm curious.
If you're not leaving town until Monday, why wouldn't you look at properties tomorrow? Sunday? Well, that's what we first thought to do. But the agent told us he was already booked. Tenatively therefore, we'll check out his recommended properties at the end of the week, or even next weekend. Can't wait too long, though. We're flying home a week from Monday.
And that's why you're here out looking on your own today. The agent you were referred to as an available? Yeah, but we thought we'd pop out into several open houses on our own to get a better feel for what's out there. For sure, that totally makes sense, but in thinking of your somewhat limited schedule, I wouldn't be worth my salt as a professional if I didn't ask you this. What would you do if tomorrow, before you leave town for a few days, I could show you a beautiful property that I think might be a real match for you. Sure, if you know of something, that would be good.
But in the afternoon sometime, no problem. I've wanted to excellent properties in mind. Would one o 'clock work or four o 'clock be better? Let's say around 330 if that's okay. That works. I'll set it up.
Let's exchange cell numbers and I'll text you round of coordinates. Great to have met you. I look forward to seeing you again tomorrow at 330.
Click play and listen to what happened as a result of having the prior conversation while I was operating in Discovery Mode.
Now, after having met and spoken with Mike on the phone, a bit later that day, I went to walk his lot and spend a little time putting together a competitive market analysis to discuss with him, knowing what I did coming out of our initial conversation. I actually listed his lot for a million in 150 and then several weeks later sold it to my own buyer who did in fact want to build for a million 25. I then took Mike and Marianne out shopping and they quickly purchased a lovely home in a great, although different neighborhood for 2495. And as is often the case when using the production model, it didn't stop there. Based on what I learned while shopping with them in the new neighborhood, which previously I'd been unfamiliar with, I thereafter went on to experience a major deal chain in that area.
And an excellent example of perpetual production, in which I had more than a dozen additional transactions come together totaling approximately 20 million in sales, all starting with the above sign call and doing large part to my effective process of talking with people.
Two days after the above conversation occurred, I received an out -of -state phone call from an accountant who was also the executor for a family trust containing several million dollars in real -estate assets situated in my area. It turned out that the trust had a provision stipulating that its holdings were to be liquidated within three years of startup and due to lack of agreement about how to go forward among the various trustees, almost two years had already gone by. Long story short, the executor was raring to go, and so, without much difficulty or delay, I listed all of the properties in question and ultimately sold each of them for a combined total sales volume of over $8 million. The survey -taker Julia had given them my name, number, and it turned out a very strong endorsement.
The next day, I didn't meet with the couple. Over a two -hour time span, we looked at four candidate properties. Each was actively listed on the MLS, yet none had already been shown to them, or even discussed with them by their previous agent. Three of the four homes we visited were themselves open houses being presented that afternoon by other agents. Two of those agents had, as it turned out, met the couple the day before, before I met them, at still different open houses.
One of those agents seemed surprised to see the couple with me, and later asked me how I met them. Another of the agents directly right in front of me and someone indignantly asked the potential buyers how they ended up with me. Long story short, I did successfully identify a new construction home that the couple loved, the last of a series of properties I showed them that day, and they became $3 ,500 ,000 all cash -fire clients of mine, all starting out of a seemingly dead open house with unassuming later rival visitors who, although not obligated to him, had been viewing properties with another agent.
First of all, and as is often the case in a sign call situation, the caller seemed to be the evasive, just one info type. In that way, he sort of fit the whole buyer's or liar's stick often heard in the real estate industry. But even though it's a prominent cliche in the business, the expression isn't true. What is true is that the agents who repeated typically don't know how to deal with that type of potential client. In contrast, the approach I took to the conversation with him and bodies of proven strategy for success.
Through effective use of the astilist and technique, I was able to, despite a bit of collarcageiness, seize the flow of information early on. In a classic display, as the call unfolded toward the front in the middle and approaching the end, I harnessed the power of triangulation to great success, eventually gaining an instructive reveal as to value in price. And as I purposely vended opportunity from time to time, the caller began to loosen up, allowing me to get a better feel for what he would do and importantly what he wouldn't do. Note how the general theme of the call was never about me attempting to impress him, or convince him that we should work together. Pretty much the call was about him.
A lesson that far too many agents never learned. My role in the sign call conversation showcased through the various skills I put in play, how to fairly quickly and quite effectively coax the wants and needs of a potential client to the surface. Ultimately I was able to define how I could help him and that he was on board with it. Consequently, I set my course to a series of big paydays.
The first aspect of success with my flip -call scenario is the fact that I even attempted to do it. Few realistic agents take action that way, which is not to say that I urge you to do it all the time. My suggestion simply make a manageable attempt to do it from time to time. Second and most important is the significant fact that by getting the flow of information to come my way, I successfully transitioned what otherwise would have been a go -no -where conversation into a truly fascinating and highly lucrative discussion of discovery. In contrast, most real estate agents fail to employ effective discovery practices in their day -to -day conversations with people let alone in a flip -call with someone.
Third, during the course of my flip -call dialogue, I was able at times to go beyond the no. There's usually more valuable information hidden yet available within a typical conversation. Sadly, most real estate agents buy allowing no to hinder or stop their conversations with people, unwittingly miscountless opportunities to identify new directions for business. Fourth, you likely noted the seeming ease in which I flipped the call. That ability didn't come to me naturally, but through practice.
And yes, I've had some fun and made some money doing it. But the big bucks don't just show up by doing more flip calls, but rather, through an ability to turn more go -no -work conversations into discussions of discovery. That's where the money is. As I always say, I rated as the high skill in real estate sales. So work to upgrade your ability to operate and discover mode when talking with someone.
You'll make a lot more money faster and easier as a result.
Although I'm no longer surprised, it still amazes me when an opportunity sometimes a really big opportunity unexpectedly pops up, and my open house case study is an example. I realized that it may initially seem like luck the fact that those potential buyers showed up when they did, but such luck wouldn't have mattered if I didn't have the right skills. The fact is, I wasn't lucky, I was fortunate, and the difference between good luck and good fortune is skill. The skill I'm referring to is that of discovery. Indeed, as I said earlier and undoubtedly will say later, the ability to operate and discovery mode is the high skill in real estate sales.
And in this instance, my skill was the deciding factor, modeling the difference between asking a question from time to time, and actually living in the question. That is, of having an overall approach to talking with people, it's about getting information to flow my way. For me, it's a professional lifestyle. Look at what I learned after speaking with the couple for just five or six minutes. That they were looking but having trouble finding the right property.
What they specifically wanted to buy, particularly in terms of architecture and design, and that even though they already had seen some properties with other agents, they were willing to work with me going forward. The end result? I promptly identified an ideal property that they loved and immediately bought. And I earned a six -figure admission check for less than six hours work. How is that possible? I don't get paid for my time, and I don't get paid for my effort. I get paid for my ability, specifically my ability to find out what people will do and then helping them to do it." But here's the kicker regarding the agents who hosted the other Open House events that the buyers visited that day.
Each had the same chance I did before I did. The different maker? I operated in Discovery Mode and they didn't. And what's truly shocking is that those other agents didn't even know it all happened. Which agent do you want to be?
First select a Conversation Topic, then select the Conversation Element you want to learn about. Conversation Compass allows you to experience real world examples of each of the conversation elements learned in the lessons from module 5 of The Production Model PRO course.
Now, after having met and spoken with Mike on the phone, a bit later that day, I went to walk his lot and spend a little time putting together a competitive market analysis to discuss with him, knowing what I did coming out of our initial conversation. I actually listed his lot for a million in 150 and then several weeks later sold it to my own buyer who did in fact want to build for a million 25. I then took Mike and Marianne out shopping and they quickly purchased a lovely home in a great, although different neighborhood for 2495. And as is often the case when using the production model, it didn't stop there. Based on what I learned while shopping with them in the new neighborhood, which previously I'd been unfamiliar with, I thereafter went on to experience a major deal chain in that area.
And an excellent example of perpetual production, in which I had more than a dozen additional transactions come together totaling approximately 20 million in sales, all starting with the above sign call and doing large part to my effective process of talking with people.
